A Thousand Guns For Jesus

On Friday morning, I took this photo in Joplin:

 20140620_083748 (1)

That sort of gives you an idea of what it is like to live in Southwest Missouri. Here, some folks like to advertise, quite openly, just how smart they are.

Or aren’t.

Over the weekend, the Joplin Globe furnished us with another example of what it is like to live here in Hooterville:

Ignite Church attempts to recruit young men by giving away AR-15

ignite church photo

According to the article,

The give away was part of an outreach by Ignite Church to a specific demographic group: males age 18 to 35.

Apparently, Jesus-loving church officials couldn’t think of anything that would draw more young men to the Savior than an assault weapon. That tells you a lot about what they think of the young men in and around Joplin, not to mention what they think of Jesus. Oh. I forgot to mention: the gun giveaway was on, uh, Father’s Day. Jesus loves you, dad, and pass the ammo! These semi-automatic babies sure eat up the lead!

The pastor of this strangely innovative New Testament church said:

If we get people in the door, we get to preach the gospel. If we can get more people to follow Jesus, I’ll give away 1,000 guns. I don’t care.

Using your logic, pastor, I have an idea for you. How about taking a page out of the jihadist hymnal and offer up 1,000 virgins? That’ll get ’em in the pews! You’ll have more “males age 18 to 35” than you can shake an assault rifle at. We would soon have our own mega-church right here in Joplin!

shoot if you love jesus

42 Comments

  1. Bbob

     /  June 23, 2014

    Sometimes my mind is boggled. Like now.

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  2. Virgin number one: that idiot pastor’s mother.

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    • I think the pastor failed to consider the way his scheme looked to outsiders, to those who might be potential converts to his faith. To us it seems obvious it was a bad idea, and for some of us familiar with Christianity, it seems so far removed from the Gospel that one has to question whether this was dreamed up during a night of drinking the strong stuff.

      Like

  3. Treeske

     /  June 23, 2014

    Study the effects of low doses Lead Poisoning, the only thing which makes sense in these lunatic cases.

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    • We have had our share of lead issues, but this seems to be just a group of people oblivious to how others might perceive their actions, especially in light of what Christianity purports to teach us.

      Like

  4. “The end justifies the means.”

    One of the most deadly thoughts ever.

    We pay for it every day.

    Like

  5. kabe

     /  June 23, 2014

    Does this fool realize it was the “white guys” who said the Government couldn’t afford Tornado relief? I literally hate living here. For those who say I should leave, do not worry, as soon as my obligations here are complete.

    Kabe

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    • White guys can jump–to conclusions. The owner of that truck obviously thinks that the rest of us share his or her feelings about things. That is what I don’t much like about living around here. Most of these right-wingers think you are one of them.

      Like

  6. Ben Field

     /  June 23, 2014

    Picture this same rationale being used by a cleric in a mosque. Hope the same eyes that would be on them are now in fact observing these idiots!

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    • Ben, that is a great point. Imagine what would have happened if the local mosque had offered free guns to attract visitors. Oh, my! Wish I had thought of that when I wrote this piece. Good stuff.

      Like

    • kabe

       /  June 24, 2014

      Ben, I always think of things from that perspective. I’ll take it a tad further though. The Teavangelicals always talk about people wanting “free stuff”, big government, welfare, the war on religion, and so on. But all the while they are doing this they are beating the war drums for more war in the Middle East. So essentially, they want the rest of Americans to pay for their much wanted religious war with the Muslims. Talk about free stuff!
      If they want this war so badly, I say they take their “well regulated militia”, their guns, their church’s money, and all their own kids and go fight this war that they want us to pay for. We can’t afford it!

      Kabe

      Like

  7. ansonburlingame

     /  June 25, 2014

    Duane,

    I started to post a comment on this blog yesterday, but it became much too long, even for me. Instead I wrote my own blog, specifically in rebutal to yours originally. It can be found at http://ansonburlingame.wordpress.com/2014/06/23/faith-is-what-one-alone-believes/,

    I link it herein only because it now has about 24 comments thereto, strong comments from both sides, right and left, but none of a religious nature as well, in my view. In my last comment therein just now, I remain above the fray in terms of should the story have been run in the first place or was the story too slanted.

    “Ben Fields” whoever he might be, dropped several comments on my blog including his point about had a Muslim group done such a raffle. His view was rebutted by people on the “right”. I won’t repeat the point or the rebuttal as you can read it for yourself if interested.

    But my own blog on the subject Duane was a direct rebutal to yours. As stated in the first paragraph, I am sick and tired of people commenting on the “faith” of other people, one way or the other. Faith is very private stuff to me and how I might believe in God or a god, how I might “connect” with Him or him or her or it or what “messages” I might receive are none of anyone’s business, period.

    I will add however that given the publicity of this Church now, I am probably going to attend it this Sunday just to “check it out” on my own. I know of no Christian or legal mandate regarding ownership of an AR-15. All I know is the poitical reaction to such ownership and the law allowing same. The only role for “faith” in such a matter is how an AR-15 should be used (or not). That then becomes a political debate, not a matter of faith as I see it.

    Anson

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    • Yes, faith. Jesus was particularly fond of the AR-15. Easy to carry under your robe. Peter was gonna stop Jesus’ captors with an AR-15, but the Master told him never to bring a gun to a knife fight. Churches and their gun nut pastors and members: the ultimate sign of the beast.

      Like

    • kabe

       /  June 25, 2014

      AB- I am with you 100% that people should be free to choose a religion and not be told how to practice your faith. But a large segment of the far right conservative movement is doing just that. One example is our own president. Born Again type churches travel the world trying to convert people to their beliefs on Jesus. However, Obama is totally rejected, ” he’s a Muslim” is the cry from the Teapublicans. How do they get to decide who is a Christian and who is not? The man says he is a Christian, end of story in my book. One man in Joplin even erected a shrine that said Obama is a Muslim, among other grievances he had. It has recently been taken down. Hopefully he is improving it. If so, I will provide photos.
      Another example is the whole prayer in school subject. Many believe it will solve all our problems. I say nothing will get accomplished academically since all religions will get their time at the podium. However, I have recently been informed that this would not be a problem. A person I know says that we are a Christian Nation, so only Christians should get to pray at school.
      A huge part of the entire Tea Party agenda are the Christian church beliefs, so how can you single out Duane for commenting on faith? We here is SW Mo have it shoved down our throats everyday on the subject of marriage, abortion, and school prayer. Try going one week and not finding a letter printed in the globe on either of these topics. Try driving on any freeway out of Joplin and NOT seeing a billboard or some personal shrine on these subjects. You can’t do it. Do you protest to them as well? Of course not, it is free speech, right?

      KABE

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    • Anson,

      1. I guess the “I voted for the White Guy” sticker didn’t bother you much?

      2. Obviously, faith in America, at least for evangelicals, is not “private stuff.” If it were, there wouldn’t be much of an issue. The heart of the evangelical gospel (as you noted on your blog, I know a little something about it, although I wouldn’t call my former self a bona fide “preacher.”) is, well, that “evangelize” part. These folks feel they are called to spread their gospel to “all nations.” Here, let me quote Jesus, as found in Mark:

      Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

      When you hold that as your motivating religious principle (after saving yourself from a fiery eternity in hell), then it is impossible to call it “private stuff.” It is very public, especially since a majority of evangelicals identify with the GOP and its policies. Thus, I will feel free to “tread” the ground of offering them criticism, even though, for some strange reason, it makes you “sick and tired.” I will pray for you to get better.

      Duane

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      • Ben Field

         /  June 26, 2014

        Does it make me sick and tired Anson can’t answer a direct question that I asked him on his blog? No, I think it is a result of knowing he would not be able to and too embarrassed to try. The Ignite minister did succeed in bringing in another to his flock, as Anson plans to attend the next service. Score one for the wacko.

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        • I read that, Ben. If Anson wanted to know what it is like, at least in terms of the tenor and content of the sermons, he could have checked on YouTube. There are several on there. I hope Anson drops a few bucks in the collection plate, though. It’s the least he can do for the “experience” this Sunday (that’s what they call their services).

          Like

  8. ansonburlingame

     /  June 26, 2014

    Kabe we are in rock solid agreement, period.

    MY faith is just that, my faith. You nor anyone else really knows what it might be as I don’t write about it very much. I certainly don’t claim a direct path to God or a god to justify my political beliefs or opinions. That of course raises a good question in my mind, the differences between “belief” and opinions. My beliefs are pretty basic, including my belief in God, which I have of a sort. You have read my comments on “honor” as well. I “believe” the two are linked. The god that I understand would never encourage me to do something dishonorable. I might do it, act dishonorably, but would never claim it to be the will of gods.

    My opinions however can change and certainly do not come “from God or a god”. My politics is all about opinion, based I hope on sound reasoning, logic, etc. which anyone can dispute and do so all the time herein.

    Initially I gave some support to the Tea Party because I liked and still call for more limited government in America. Government should only do what it can do, well for starters. And even if it can do it well, then cost comes into play, before “morality” (we need it no matter what it costs). Apply those two tests to any government program and you wind up with far more limited government than we have today, particularly the federal government.

    But these religious zealots that bring their faith to the political arena, well I support voting them DOWN almost all the time. Akin was only an example of such and my vote followed that “opinion”. I don’t care what Akin’s faith might be, or Clair’s as well. But his politics, not her’s, is based on faith primarily and some of it is just stupid in my view.

    And for Duane to take this Ignite church thing as a symptom of all of Joplin or Southwest Missouri is wrong as well. He, again, mixed religion and politics and generalized a whole region as a bunch of ……… At least that is the way I read his “rant” and have read many before along the same lines from Duane.

    Finally, if you want to see my point, just read “the general’s” comment above, telling me what Jesus preached and how I should interpret it!!! Note as well he is giving that lecture to a man who once had the responsibility to release nuclear weapons if ordered to do so!!! I would only suggest to him and others in here that I gave very deep thought to my responsibilites as a professional naval officer and “god’s will(s)” when I first accepted such responsibilities and felt comfortable, morally, doing so.

    Anson

    Like

    • Anson —
      What the hell are you talking about? I never suggested how you should interpret Jesus’ preaching. I merely distilled the lunacy of those offering an apologetic for “churches” given over to things not very Jesus-ish. It’s a trend. It has made the religious nit wit right an international laughing stock to the whole world beyond their tiny one. Look, you and I have good old fashioned contempt for one another. That’s okay with me. You don’t need to go out of your way to create arguments or inferences that don’t exist. You and I have plenty that do.
      Pay attention.

      Like

    • You wrote,

      And for Duane to take this Ignite church thing as a symptom of all of Joplin or Southwest Missouri is wrong as well. He, again, mixed religion and politics and generalized a whole region as a bunch of ……… At least that is the way I read his “rant” and have read many before along the same lines from Duane.

      I’m sorry you read it that way. Maybe that was my fault. Apart from calling the place we live “Hooterville,” which has been a name for Joplin I have used often (there are lots of things I like about Hooterville, by the way, especially Billie Jo, Bobbie Jo, and Betty Jo), this post was meant to convey just how right-wing folks around here assume we all think like they do. Example: thinking we all know that the “black” guy has screwed everything up and the “white” guy would have fixed it all; and the idea that young men around here would jump for Jesus if you offered them an assault rifle.

      I find both things offensive, even if, obviously, it does not mean that everyone who lives here is responsible for the offense.

      Duane

      Like

  9. Ben Field

     /  June 26, 2014

    Duane,
    What offends me about Hooterville is the ultra-conservatives who preach no more free stuff are stuffing their faces at the government trough. Joplin plans to spend 890 million dollars in projects through the Master Developer they hired. Most of this money comes via grants and programs of the state and nation. The MD has been fined $120000.00 by the SEC for obtaining property by untrue statements. He also has 3 bankruptcies pending where he has defaulted on over 25 million dollars. None of this was reported by the Globe although it is public information. The MD is to build a 38 million dollar library on LEASED land at a 16.5 million dollar cost over 99 years. The state granted 20 million for the library. The MD is not creditworthy enough to close on a 560,000 dollar property as scheduled. The Joplin Progress Committee was formed to insure council members were elected to follow this MD’s vision for Joplin. They supported a councilman found by an independent investigator to have committed ethics violations and he was re-elected. I do not support hypocrites, for the life of me I cannot understand if 47% of the population is on assistance why this is such an ultra-conservative stronghold. Burlingame won’t respond to these facts, just takes off on a different tangent. What is your opinion?

    Like

    • Ben,

      First, I appreciate what you said about the “free stuff” that many die-hard, anti-big-government conservatives around here enjoy, much of it courtesy of hard-working taxpayers in blue states (a subject I have dealt with several times on this blog). Not only tornado-related money, but regular socialistic program money like food stamps and Medicaid and Medicare and Social Security. Many of the folks who benefit from government programs—I know because I have talked to a lot of them—can’t wait to run to the nearest polling place and vote for a candidate who, in some form or another, opposes the philosophical and ideological basis for the benefits they enjoy. Amazing, ain’t it? Some of this can be explained by religious indoctrination, but not all. I think a lot of it has to do with the quasi-rural life that so many folks around here experience. And by nature, rural folks are quite distrustful of government, even as they take its money.

      In any case, I have read what you have written on Anson’s blog about the Master Developer and I have read much of what has been on the Globe website, and I have read some on Turner’s site, and I have read what Anson has written, and I agree with you there are a lot of serious questions about the whole thing, almost none of which are ever explored in depth in “official” local media, like the Globe and KZRG and the TV stations. I know that much of the local media is all about selling advertising, and I suspect that the real reporters are overworked covering more than one beat, but I wish some reporter would be assigned the task of comprehensively investigating all the stuff you relate regarding the MD and his history and present difficulties. It’s probably too late to change the trajectory, though. The council seems sold-out to the plan in place and I hope, for the good of the community, that it all works out.

      The whole Mark Rohr controversy left me very concerned about the quality of analysis of our local electorate, at least those who chose to reelect a man who had at least the appearance of a conflict of interest with property transfers, etc. But more than that, some voters, some of them quite angrily, tossed out of office Trisha Raney, who had the courage to do what she thought was right (no matter what one thinks about the merits of it) related to that mess over the once-hidden testimony about Rohr.  She said,

      I could not in good conscience vote to not do everything we can to protect our employees. To me, this was a call between people and politics. I knew my vote might prevent my re-election, but for me, people always win over politics.

      Of course she knew her vote would hurt her. But she voted that way anyway. I, for one, admire that kind of behavior. Too many around here though couldn’t get past the controversy over Rohr, who most certainly has bullied his way everywhere he has been (I read every article written about him when he was city manager of Punta Gorda; some of it sounds so damn familiar to anyone who followed what happened here) and who most certainly appealed to the authoritarian streak that runs through so many conservatives these days. Almost none of them knew what was going on, yet they jumped to his defense. I happened to think a lot of it had to do with the perceived politics of our local African-American mayor, but I can’t prove that.

      As for the Joplin Progress Committee, I share your concerns. Unfortunately, that is the way the world works, especially in a post-Citizens United world. The folks with the dough will have their say, and likely have their way. Time will tell. I’m glad there are people out there like you who are watching what is happening. (Since I cancelled the Globe, I pay less attention to local politics than I used to.)

      As for Anson, he and I have had a few private exchanges on these subjects (I also had an email exchange with Mike Woolston, about the appearance of a conflict of interest). I will leave it to Anson to explain why he “takes off on a different tangent,” a complaint that many have about his style of argumentation.

      Duane

      Liked by 1 person

      • Ben Field

         /  June 27, 2014

        Thank you for the most intelligent response I have received for my questions and I agree with all you said including the former mayor. I also cancelled my subscription in 2011, but read it online for free. If you want to know how I can e-mail you. I hope our electorate becomes better informed, lest they be taxed to clean up the inevitable loss to the city’s coffers when the MD fails again.

        Like

  10. I have been out of town for a while, but have appreciated this post and its comments. In particular I am moved to comment on the bumper sticker and the Ignite Church promotion relative to the relationship of religion and politics, and also AB’s comment:

    And for Duane to take this Ignite church thing as a symptom of all of Joplin or Southwest Missouri is wrong as well. He, again, mixed religion and politics and generalized a whole region as a bunch of ……… At least that is the way I read his “rant” and have read many before along the same lines from Duane.

    Duane is not initiating a campaign to mix religion and politics, Anson, he is commenting on organized efforts by others to do it. It is common around here and I see signs of it every day.

    I know that everyone on this page is well aware of what the First Amendment says about religion, although many will argue about its interpretation. To me it clearly says that politics and religion ought to be kept separate. Obviously, that’s hard to do and there are lots of organized people in this area trying to blend them, using their their particular brand of religion of course, most of all the Teavangelicals. For an example of how this is playing with fire we need look no farther than what is now going on across the Middle East between the Shiites and the Sunnis. I dunno what the solution is, or even if there is one, but people like the ones highlighted in Duane’s post disgust me.

    Like

    • Thanks, Jim. Welcome back.

      What I have failed to get through to Anson is that there is an important reason to criticize people’s religious beliefs, if those beliefs are providing the basis for public policy. I don’t care all that much (I do have some residual concern for their not wasting their life on religious zealotry, but that is another matter) if person X loves Jesus or Muhammad or Buddha, so long as he or she doesn’t insist that our politics conform to some version of Christianity, Islam, or Buddhism. And because evangelicals and fundamentalists here in America do so insist, based on the notion that this is a “Christian” nation, and because they believe that certain public policies, like how to treat gay citizens, should reflect beliefs found in an ancient, pre-scientific Christian text, then I feel it my responsibility, as a former evangelical myself, to criticize such religious beliefs.

      Duane

      Liked by 1 person

  11. ansonburlingame

     /  June 27, 2014

    Generalist has done it again. He claims something is “not very Jesus-ish” Well general, just how do you know that particular tid bit of usless information, the “jesusness” of something political!!!! I’ll make up my own mind on that point thank you very much.

    Believe you me, all you liberals in here, I don’t like right wing groups mixing religion and politics anymore than you do. But I attack their politics (like abortion), not their religion, when they do so. And the ultimate test of my actions in that regard is how I vote, against the likes of Akin, all the time. And if Roy Blunt tried to wave “god” under my nose in a campaign I would vote against him as well, Blunt, not god(s) by the way.

    I don’t vote for or against god(s), only politicians, and the will of those god(s) has nothing to do with my vote either. I have voted in every national election since I was 21 years old, and NEVER have I asked God for whom I should vote, NEVER!! I ask Him a ton of things but never political questions. That, politics, is between me and other men and women, period!!

    Anson

    Like

    • First, Anson — get back on your meds. Second, my comment about Jesus and AR15s was meant to be sarcastic and humorous. Idiot! Third, before you attend Reverend Rowdy’s Wild West Show — err, “church” read the Gospels — to get an idea of Jesus and violence, Jesus and race, Jesus and inclusion, Jesus and wealth, Jesus and the religious establishment, Jesus and legalism, Jesus and nitwitery. You, sir, are a verbose-but-vapid windbag. Here’s some advice for you from George Eliot: “Blessed is the man, who having nothing to say, abstains from giving wordy evidence of the fact.”

      Like

  12. ansonburlingame

     /  June 28, 2014

    I ignore your crack about reading the Bible!

    But I offer my reason for attending a church, locally. If Westbourough Baptist Church was in Joplin I would attend it also, one time, simply to hear their side of the story and not just take your opinion of them!!!

    Everyone commenting on this blog have already concluded that the Ignite Church is simply a bunch of …….. I haven’t done so yet but will soon get a much better “read” on that church and those that attend it, simply by looking and talking to at least some of them!!

    Right or wrong will they be, I have not much of a clue right now. And I certainly will not take YOUR opinion of them, yet. But what I actually see and hear, firsthand, well you can read about my opinions on that point next week. I wonder if Eli Yokley will be there as well, willing to listen and observe a church in action?????

    Anson

    Like

    • kabe

       /  June 28, 2014

      AB, I wish you had not announced your planned visit to Ignite. They know your coming now and I have no doubt services will be altered. It would have been interesting though. I have attended a couple of unfamiliar churches a few years back, during the Amendment 2 debate. WOW! The man had no idea what he was talking about, admitted as much, but still said, “this is bad stuff folks”. Another church I attended spent a large amount of time relating deer hunting/guns to the blood letting from the BIble. And in both, everyone knew I was new. It was plain creepy. After the Amendment 2 sermon, I went to pick up my Mother-in-law from the Catholic church and saw people leaving mass with fresh new Amendment 2 yard signs! (I am Catholic, by the way. And I have my issues with them as well.) At least at the Catholic church you don’t get the hard sell to join. I’m sure some think Catholic Mass is creepy. No entertainment, bands, video. It is a more somber event.

      Anyways, may I suggest you hold off a while before attending? It may be too late, but I would love to see an honest, unscripted account of events.

      KABE

      Like

      • ansonburlingame

         /  June 30, 2014

        Kabe, I did attend and have now sent a proposed Guest Column to Carol for publication in the Globe. Bottom line is I would allow my kids or adult grandkids to attend that church if they so desired. Nothing at all strange, untoward in just about any reasonable metric of a Christian Church that is decidedly evangelical towards a group of men (18-35) that need some better foundations in their lives, maybe. The minister himself is just such a man, one that led an “active: life outside of the church and now ……. He is not a gun nut in any way that I could see but he is a decided evangelist for men that are just like he used to be.

        Were they forewarned and thus radically modified their service etc simply because they knew I was coming? I seriously doubt that Kabe as I am not that important or influential. As well I believe I have a pretty good bullshit detector and if a false flag was being flown just for me, well I think I would see beneath such crap. I made a professional career out of doing just that sort of thing, looking for bullshit.

        Anson

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        • kabe

           /  June 30, 2014

          AB, It is quite possible that someone knew you are a writer for the Globe. Around here the Globe is Gospel. We will never really know for sure if your opinion is tainted or not. I’m sure most people there are decent folks, I know a few myself. However, politics is making some people do some strange things the past few years.

          KABE

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      • kabe

         /  June 30, 2014

        * Prop 2, not Amendment 2. Sorry.

        Kabe

        Like

  13. ansonburlingame

     /  June 28, 2014

    Now back to Duane, Jim, etc. with far more rational statements above, many of which I agree with. I restate that I detest the perversion of religion by anyone to achieve political goals, anyone. The world has seen the results of that action since men first started worshiping gods. It is the attempt to link religion and politics that disgusts me and both sides, the anti-religious of any sort and the most “faithful” do it all the time.

    Whether intended or not, and I suspect it is unintended, Duane attacks religious beliefs all the time. Just calling some religion “Iron Age Theology” is a sweeping condemnation in my view. Some of that “Iron Age” sfuff goes much farther back than just that time in human history and it remains correct, in my view. Hell even the Egyptians, before the bronze age, got some things right, in my view. Good moral values are timeless, again in my humble opinon. As well, before the “iron age” the Greeks got some things rather right as well, again in my view. I still refer to Plato from time to time!!!

    But here is a key point, my concerns about all religions, today. I have read a book called the Covenant Debate, a book describing how the Bible was “set in stone” about 1500 years ago. Why, I wonder? Did some god just decide to stop connecting with people 1500 years ago and all we have to do is read history? Hell about the time our own Bible became set in stone, never to be changed or challenged, another god decided to speak to a man and there we went, with another Bible on our hands and we still agrue about which one is correct. I say neighter one has all the answers, in writing, for me today!!

    And what all those answers from some god might be today is not for you to tell me, one way or the other. That is between me and ……. and to some degree it will affect my politics as well. But I will never try to equate the accuracy of my political beliefs to a god.

    What was it someone said above, about me. I was compared to Dr. Strangelove because of my views on nuclear weapons, their possession and potential uses someday. I would suggest that I am the only one routinely commenting on this blog that has ever come close to having a finger on a nuclear trigger and the thought process I went through before accepting that awesome responsibility, to myself, the people of the world, and yes some spiritual power beyond me and all of you as well. Jim probably came closer than anyone else herein but Jim never had command at sea where the rubber really meets the road in terms of allowing the release of a nuclear weapon. That is not a criticism of Jim’s professional achievements by the way. It simply suggests one must walk in such shoes and confront the potential of exercising such responsiblity, in the real world, not a blog. It makes agruing about a church giving away an AR-15 pale in significance, to me at least.

    Anson

    Like

    • Ben Field

       /  June 28, 2014

      No, Anson, I posted the referral to Dr. Strangelove on your own blog. An argument or debate if you will, should be abased on facts, documents, or proofs. You choose to debate on opinions your wife had of Joplin, feelings you obtained from looking into the eyes of whom you speak to in making your opinion. When the MD went to the bank to close on the Coca-Cola property as scheduled, he was unable to obtain the $560k loan. I suspect he was denied due to his $2753.00 company ending balance in 2013 and the bankruptcy actions and SEC fines. The facts do not support the risk. Mark my words, this will not end well. Ignite Church chose to be provocative with the guns and sex ads back in 2011 because of publicity. Their minister said “People are crazy, period.” Then says “It did not enter our minds that were could potentially harm society by giving away guns”. If one of those weapons were indeed to do as designed and kill someone, would he still feel that way? I don’t know what your mindset was during your service but the logic and opinion you now offer terrifies me that you had such access. Please try to understand that is my opinion of your mentality, but thank you for your service.

      Like

    • I had no idea Anson served aboard a submarine armed with nuclear missiles. This is really interesting information. Perhaps in his role as self-appointed “duty conservative” commenter, he can bring this up again for no apparent reason.

      Like

  14. ansonburlingame

     /  June 30, 2014

    My God, the snide comments from some herein. There are lots of things you don’t know about me, Juan and I certainly don’t know you from Adam!!

    The constitution of this country allows gun ownership. I don’t believe it should today, but so what. Private citizens may own guns and a church decided to give some away to make money. Legal as far as I can tell but look at the outrage right here in this blog, against a church and its leaders.

    With freedom (to own guns, etc.) comes responsibility. If one owns a gun they should have the sense to use them responsibilily and legally. You nor anyone else commenting against that church have any idea how they promote the idea of being “responsible” in America today.

    Anson

    Like

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