Fox and Friends, the morning show on Republican Party Television, has long been the place where IQs go to die, but what it did on Wednesday set a new low it won’t soon surpass, unless, of course, it one day calls the President a nigger during one of its fair and balanced segments.
As you watch the following, keep in mind that in the lower left corner of all Fox programming is that little, slowly spinning Fox “News” box, which makes a mockery of journalism 24-7:
The Erstwhile Conservative: A Blog of Repentance 
jdhight01
/ May 31, 2012What is so disgusting is that over one million people watch this crap. Of course, most of them are old, white bigots.
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Jim Wheeler
/ May 31, 2012I’m currently starting to read “The Presidents Club” and right out of the gate I’m learning that demagoguery is nothing new. Even Eisenhower was guilty. Harry Truman invited him to the White House just before the campaigns began and graciously treated him as an honored guest. Soon after that the purple ink flowed. Truman bore up, being experienced, but all the same was hurt by blatant lies. I guess it goes with the profession of politics. It’s a shame, is what it is.
The Fox segment is red meat for the faithful, that’s for sure, but I’m unsure whether it will actually change minds. What kind of mind thinks the President has the power to change the price of gasoline or food, or even create non-government jobs for that matter? It can’t be stated too often or too firmly that any correlation between economic cycles and political cycles is tenuous at best, but at the same time, that’s what appeals to most voters, especially when they’re hurting or fearful.
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hlgaskins
/ June 1, 2012” What kind of mind thinks the President has the power to change the price of gasoline or food, or even create non-government jobs for that matter?”
I could be wrong, “out on a limb” with this one, but I would suggest the “FOX news, viewing, and listening kind?” Does it get any dumber than that? We are living in a time of unprecedented ignorance, with the ignorant out-populating the polls of the knowledgeable, and the “right,” preying on their ignorance for votes.
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ansonburlingame
/ June 1, 2012Just in case any of you missed it, based on a Washington Post lead ariticle Bill Clinton is quoted saying,
“Clinton said Romney has a “sterling” record in business. He also said that private equity is a legitimate part of the economy and that not all investments in failing companies turn out to be winners. He further said the combination of Romney’s experience in business and in Massachusetts means he is ready to serve as president.”
AB
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hlgaskins
/ June 1, 2012“He further said the combination of Romney’s experience in business and in Massachusetts means he is ready to serve as president.”
Could you provide a link to that article?
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ansonburlingame
/ June 2, 2012http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/jobs-numbers-remind-obama-that-he-must-do-more-than-just-attack/2012/06/01/gJQABahx7U_story.html
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hlgaskins
/ June 2, 2012Thanks for the link Anson
Clinton also said this in the same article.
“Clinton seemed to knock down the wisdom of that approach.
But the former president may not have been as far off message as the instant interpretations suggested — or as much as Romney and the Republicans want to believe. After all, in the same interview, he predicted that Obama would win reelection — and by five or six points, which is a more bullish projection that most Democrats will say publicly.”
And this!
“If Clinton seemed to undermine a key element of the president’s campaign strategy, he may also have baited a trap for Romney. In giving Romney a pass on the question of whether his business and governmental records qualify him to be president, he also has suggested that Romney must do more than simply criticize Obama’s record to win the voters’ trust.
Romney has not broken with broad outlines of the tax-cutting policies of former president George W. Bush’s eight years in office. He wants to go further, with deeper tax cuts. Bush’s policies did not produce economic growth or job creation to match Clinton’s record in the 1990s, and his term concluded with the collapse of the economy.”
To read the excerpt quoted above in your reply gives the impression that Clinton is supportive of Romney. The quote by itself pulls Clinton’s words out of context by not fully conveying a completed thought.
A little Wikipedia on context.
“The practice of quoting out of context, sometimes referred to as “contextomy” or “quote mining”, is a logical fallacy and a type of false attribution in which a passage is removed from its surrounding matter in such a way as to distort its intended meaning.
Arguments based on this fallacy typically take two forms. As a straw man argument, which is frequently found in politics, it involves quoting an opponent out of context in order to misrepresent their position”
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ansonburlingame
/ June 2, 2012See below for a full reply to avoid this string getting too narrow.
AB
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Treeske
/ May 31, 2012To understand the popularity of Fox News, it’s helpful (and also scary at times) to research the origins of Public Relations, a project of Freud’s Nephew Berneys, who applied Freud’s discoveries about people manipulation. Berneys who lived in the US, is accredited with changing the toast and jelly breakfast to eggs and bacon, 🙂 Other big changes are accredited to him in American Society, interestinly enough, he called it Propaganda. Goebels is known to have adapted the PR for people’s acceptance of Nazism. Lee Atwater, Rove’s Tutor, is accredited with interest in the practice which seems to have been accepted and practiced by the Republican Party ever since. Is there a better word for Fox News than PROPAGANDA?
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ansonburlingame
/ May 31, 2012To all,
Should me one factual error in the clip shown in terms of “then and now”. Just one about that Obama criticized in terms of gas, food, etc. price and what he would do, like cut the deficit in half, instead of double or triple deficit in his attempt to stop the rise in ……… or lowering of unemployment, etc.
He has FAILED to achieve those promises and blames the GOP and Bush for his failure, after 31/2 years of trying to “change” things.
Just about EVERYTHING that Obama criticized as a candiate in 2008 has gotten worse, much worse, but that is the GOP’s fault after he had two years with a Congress that could pass just about anything, except, thank God for the rules of the Senate, long in place for over a century.
And then he tries to ignore the affect of too much deficit and overhwelming debt, as do folks on this blog. Well look at Europe, specifically Spain and Greece and tell me too much debt is not bad and tell me how long before that steamroller rolls over the new French President.
then tell me that German might well not bolt out of the European Union and align themselves with ……., maybe Russia, financically and consider the geopolticial consequences of that happening. Of course most in “here” will say that will never happen, right?
We are continuing downhill as a country, financially, militarily, and as a “beacon on a hill” for others. Just look at how bright our beacon is for the Arab Spring. But that is Bush’s fault, right!!!!
This country is in a bigger mess than every before in our history, except maybe during the Civil War. In my view NEITHER party or candidate has a clear path out of the mess. NEITHER PARTY or candidate.
Why is that? Because the path forward is to learn to live within our means economically, militarily and geopolitically. But NO ONE wants to hear that and thus just tries to destroy the “other side” at least in this very biased blog site.
Anson
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KABE
/ May 31, 2012AB, I think the problems with jobs and the economy were inevitable long before Obama or even Bush took office. With the push for a global economy it was just a matter of time before our wages in the US dropped dramatically, thus killing demand to drive the economy. As long as people around the globe will work for peanuts under poor conditions most of the good jobs will not come back.
Kabe
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Treeske
/ June 1, 2012Anson,- Get real. The system is corrupt which took longer than three years to accomplish. Your last paragraph should have been applied way before this smart black guy got voted in and left with the mess. Admit it, the drugstore cowboy and his sidekick ( both draft dodgers,) really fixed us good!
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ansonburlingame
/ June 1, 2012Kabe, I believe you are absolutely correct. We have been doing it to ourselves for about 50 years with our insatible demand for more and more from government without paying for what we receive. And just about every Western Democracy has been doing so and the chickens are coming home to roost.
Go back and reread “A Flat World” by Friedman written some 12 or more years ago. In part he said that American ingenuity, call it brainpower, was the solution to competing in a global market with a flat world. Then look at how we have nutured American brain power in our public schools for decades, just as an example.
As for Tresske, are you now including Clinton in your critique of the causes of our current problems?
My view, a pessimistic one, is that our national problems have gone far beyond the ability of a single man or woman to solve as a President. Ultimately we the people govern ourselves and are thus the root of the problem in the demands that we the people place upon our government.
However I also do not believe all is lost and democracy is doomed to fail. Not in any way do I believe that. All it takes is strong leadership which today MUST include saying “NO” to unreasonable, call it impossible to meet, demands from we the people.
Kids do not at all like being told “No” by wise parents. We the people are acting likes such kids, in my view.
Anson
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KABE
/ June 2, 2012AB, I do not see how government played a role in the cheap overseas labor that I mentioned, unless we are talking tax breaks for companies that take jobs overseas. Now under a Romney economy, there will be more breaks for corporations. Unless they bring jobs back to our soil I say forget about any breaks, we cannot afford it.
Kabe
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ansonburlingame
/ June 2, 2012You are correct Kabe in that American government has no control over labor rates elsewhere. In fact I WISH the government had no part in deciding the labor rates here in America as well. That should be a matter of negotiation between labor and management, union or non-union labor.
Every “worker” has a choice, a real choice. If pay and conditions do not meet their needs then don’t work there, simply as that. But then government steps in to control the matter, ineptly it seems to me.
Just look at the fiasco in SC with Boeing. The more I read of it the more it seems that the federal government is taking sides to support unions, not fair and straight forward negotiations.
Politics is deemed to be controlled by money today. When Dems win watch how the NLRB response or the other way with a GOP win. WHY?
Labor and Management are all grown men and women and should be able to settle their differences as such. Why should government take sides, one way or the other?
But I forget. According to progressives, corporations are not people and thus should not be able to contribute to the political process. But I have yet to hear that unions are not people and thus should stay out of politics as well. Hmmmm?
What is the source of all the ‘out of state” money in Wisconsin right now from either side, do you think? Unions and corporations is my bet, $millions from both sides. I hear, true or not I have no idea that $40 million has flowed from unions into Wisconsin in just the last few days to support the drive for a massive labor turnout on June 5th!
Anson
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KABE
/ June 3, 2012I was approaching this issue from an economical stand point, yet you have found a way to enter your anti-union stance. How much lower would you like wages in America to go? Locally, a furniture plant in Lamar moved to Mexico a few years back. Non union, although I forget its name. (Sullivan?) How about one of our local hospital cutting ties with a group of handicapped employees that did the laundry? What, minimum wage is not low enough? You are correct, people do have choices and unfortunately many now choose to stay on unemployment or welfare because the pay is better.
With the money in politics, you cannot believe that unions spend more than corporations, can you? Money is so influential in our political system that I believe we are not really too far from being a communist country ruled by the corporations. I hope the 40 million you mention is correct in Wisconsin because the reports I have seen have corporations out spending unions by 20 to 1.
Kabe
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R. Duane Graham
/ June 3, 2012KABE,
Unions are being outspend by multiple times in Wisconsin. There is much at stake for the Republican Tea Party philosophy. If it goes down there, it is in trouble everywhere. Thus, the big money rolling in. I am saddened, no, I’m pissed, about Obama sitting the whole Wisconsin thing out. More on that later.
But I like your reference to the hospital cutting ties with the handicapped employees, which goes to show that money, or the love of it, rules all.
Duane
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ansonburlingame
/ June 2, 2012HLG,
Of course I read the entire link and was not trying to “cherry pick” a quote out of context.
The point is that Dems (along with Gingrich and Perry) have tried very hard to disparage Romney’s role as a private equity capitalists. OWS has even gone to far as to call for doing away entirely with capitalism. Clinton’s words are a caution to going overboard in condeming a system of finance that is as main stream as “banking”. Private equity capital has done many great things for the country and some Dems (including Clinton) do not want to seem that they are going off the deep end in condeming any and all private equity capitalism.
Duane has been on a rampage to condemn Romney, Bain and by extension “vulture capitalism”. Clinton’s words are a polite reminder to folks like Duane, in my view, to be careful, very careful in such broad condemnation.
Of course Clinton will support Obama. And he may well be “laying a trap” for Romney as well. Clinton is a far more shrewd politician than EITHER Romney or Obama, particularly Obama and his Chicago style campaigning. My guess, at least privately Clinton would also caution Obama in his efforts to continue the “blame game” against Bush, etc. as well.
Looking back, both Reagan and Clinton GOVERNED in a divided government. Reagan had to “eat” spending that he would not have supported had he controlled Congress. The epic battles between Clinton and Gingrich again demonstrated a manner of governing, not campaigning, in a democratic form of government, usually with stronger minority powers (filibuster) than any majority wants to confront.
As well Romney GOVERNED his State as Governor, rather effectively in my view, with some 80% of the legislature from the “other side”. And now Duane and others gleefully call him a “flip flopper” with no principles. Are you kidding me, a devout Mormon with no “principles”!
Jim Wheeler in fact is highly suspicous of Romney’s Mormon “principles” and Duane has at least acknowledged that concern and fanned the flames. Look at the title of this blog.
So on one hand Romney is suspected of religious principles that could go too far yet is called to account to seek compromise while governing his State. Yikes.
Clinton and Reagan both understood the limits of ideology in order to govern in a democracy. Obama has yet to find such limits in my view and thus has governed poorly yet blames it on only his political opponents.
If nothing else, the Clinton quote provided, at least to me, is a subtle warning not to go too far on the part of passionate Dems.
Anson
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ansonburlingame
/ June 4, 2012Just to keep the string readable, I offer comments to Kabe and Duane above here.
I recently read that SUPERPAC money is about 86% private donors , 13% corporations and unions and about 1% from “public companies”, which I assume are publicly traded companies.
I am fairly sure that the like of Sorous and Koss Brothers pretty much cancel each other out as well.
But Kabe you raise a good question about how low (or high) wages should go. My answer, a libertarian one, is wherever the market takes them, not government intervention.
Friedman essentially said so in his book, Flat World. If people want to make ‘big money” they must produce things that demand “big prices”. What generates “big prices” or big volumn for relatively low prices? NEW things, innovative things like cell phones and computers, etc. that cause extraordinary demand in a market place.
If my plumbing leaks I either fix it myself or call a friend that can do it for me. The friend charges $18 per hour. If I call a real plumber it is $75 to just show up and $50 an hour while working. I suppose I am taking food out of the mouth of someone in doing so,
An auto worker costs on the order of $80 per hour for his labor, or so I have read. If I can make the same auto, same qualtiy, etc for workers charging $3 per hour, well there is your flat world right before your eyes.
I have been reading a lot of late about Africa, long ago. A English captain could purchase “trade goods” to the tune of maybe 500 pounds sterling, take those goods to Africa and bring home all sorts of stuff to sell for 10’s of thousands of pounds sterling. One trip and the man could pay for the whole ship in one trip, back then.
Well a “captain of industry” today can make something for $3 per hour and sell it at a huge profit somewhere else, like America today. No way can American labor “keep up” with that imbalance in a market.
but Friedman had suggestions that made sense to me 12 years ago and still make sense to me today in such a market.
Smart people adapt to changing markets. Not so smart people ask now for government to do it for them. In the long run, who do you believe will “win”?
anson
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Anonymous
/ June 4, 2012AB, you have said many times here that data can be twisted any way you want. I just looked at the Journal Sentinal in Milwaukee and it has Walker’s total money at over 30 mil vs less that 4 mil for Barrett.
Kabe
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ansonburlingame
/ June 4, 2012Kabe,
I was refering only to the “out of state money” being used for such things as “get out the vote”, etc. I was NOT talking about direct contributions to the campaigns of the two contestants.
You know as well as I do that lots of money is pouring into Wisconsin right now for all sorts of “stuff” to sway the election.
AB
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KABE
/ June 4, 2012AB, the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel has a state by state break down of donations for this elections that you may like.
Kabe
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KABE
/ June 4, 2012AB, one question. Would you pay for cheaper labor for a mechanic, plumber, or strawberries ( you mentioned that on another conversation) knowing that the money was going to an illegal alien? If so, would you tell this person “Thanks, now get the hell out of my country” ?
Kabe
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ansonburlingame
/ June 5, 2012Kabe,
No way can we resolve illegal immigration issues in blog comments, first of all. But to answer your question, my goal as a consumer is to obtain the best possible “stuff” (goods or services) at the lowest possible price.
I suspect many hotels at which I stay have some illegals working in the household services staff or food services as well. As long as my room is clean, I only concern myself with the cost of the room and would complain to some manager if it was not. How they get the room clean (or strawberries picked, etc.) is their problem not mine.
Would you stay in a casino in Vegas knowing it was run by the “mob”?
Forget illegal labor and look only at union or non-union labor in America to produce a product or service. When I shop for a car I look primarily at the quality of the car and its cost. If non-union car manufacturers meet my goals, I don’t worry about “supporting unions” (or non-unions) when I make my purchase.
When I purchased an iPhone, I did not worry about where it was manufactured either. Do you think heroin users in America worry about “supporting the Taliban”?
Why is Wal Mart the country’s leading retailer? Quality and price seem to drive that position, not politics.
Anson
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KABE
/ June 5, 2012AB, If one is willing to pay for cheaper products knowing that it may be the product of illegal labor then you must accept the fact that theses folks may want to vote and that it will cause some big problems in our society.This issue reminds me of blacks being free to work after slavery, but considered to be inferior as far as having the rights of all citizens.
Also, you used the word “quality” and “Walmart” in the same sentence. lol I did know that was possible. I usually attempt to buy most products elsewhere before going to Walmart. I used to buy there when I had to, thankfully they had a good return policy. I returned many broken products over the years as far as gardening equipment, children’s toys, tools, and such. I finally gave up.
I think Walmart does so well is because our standard of living is dropping as our wages drop. Admittedly, it is sometimes hard not to have to go there.
Kabe
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KABE
/ June 5, 2012I have to apologize for my poor spelling and grammar. I am “Mom” this week and have been checking in between kiddie runs!
Kabe
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KABE
/ June 5, 2012AB, I was wondering where you had gotten the information saying that Unions had given 40 Mil to the Dems in Wisconsin? I have been trying to find this info. with no luck. It seems to be wildly incorrect. This is not an attack on you. I was hoping it to be correct!
Kabe
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ansonburlingame
/ June 5, 2012Kabe,
I really like these exchanges we are having herein. They by and large are exchanges of substance on policies, not name calling rhetoric diatribes. Thanks for that. But of coure we still disagree, primarily.
WHO really shops at Wal Mart. My wife will not set foot in the store, snob, progressive snob, that she is. In fact if you read my blog on Justice and Politics, she thinks Herb is correct in calling for Bush to go before an International War Crimes Tribunal!!! But I still love and respect her. Not so of course with Duane!!! And no Kabe, I won’t “sleep: with your either, expecting a union knife in my back!!!
The really simple fact is that Wal Mart provides a product that a lot of consumers buy. You and my wife may not buy it but….
Americans want cheap products, cheap land, cheap homes, but high quality. Good business men figure out how to achieve that goal. Progressives disparge such business men and and the profits they make for producing what Americans demand.
Go figure.
Anson
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KABE
/ June 5, 2012WHOA THERE AB, no one offered to sleep with you! I will disagree that progressives disparage the wealth of others, I certainly do not. That is a wide stroke.
Walmart, in my opinion provides a cheap product that people HAVE to by, not so much CHOOSE to buy. If this were not true, then people would all have much more in savings and assets. I am sure you read the same reports that show most families have very little set aside. This, to me, is going to lead to much pain in the future for our country.
Lastly, I think deep down you thank your God everyday for Duane!
KABE
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ansonburlingame
/ June 6, 2012HA! Well I don’t thank God for Duane, but I do appreciate the simple fact that he keeps me thinking as now an old man.
As for progressives begruding the wealth of others, who knows, in general. For sure however many protest mightily how they use that wealth or gain it in the first place
For example, I could care less how wealthy Romney might be as long as he earned that wealth legally and ethically, which most progressives dispute, at least the ethical part. What I DO care about Romney, a lot, is the skills that he has shown over a lifetime to work hard, earn money, create more money for others to earn, etc.
To me that is a demonstration of leadership in a tough world over a lifetime and in various forms, government, business, the Olympics and probably within his church and community as well.
Anson
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